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One Dog Trainer's Perspective On Pit Bull Attacks
June 19, 2005
Dawn, a professional dog trainer, left this comment at one of my earlier posts about attacks by pit bulls. Here is what she has to say: It's very difficult for me to take the side of banning a breed of dog, I don't like the precedent it sets, I don't like anybody losing their freedoms of choice whether it's pet ownership or anything else, however, unless someone can come up with a viable alternative I don't see that we have any choice in the matter. My own experiences with pits has convinced me that they are an extremely unstable and unsafe animal for the majority of people to own. To the counter-argument that if you ban pit bulls, another breed will be trained by thugs to behave the same way, I doubt it, but you know what? If that happened, and Presa Canarios or some other strong, violent breed earned the same poor record that dogs the pit bull breed now, I'd support the same position toward them that I have toward pit bulls: responsible pit bull owners must police their own communities, engage in peer education and outreach and push for strong, breed-specific local licensing regulations for pit bull owners, or face the real possibility that as attacks mount in a given locality, pressures will grow for local breed bans on pits. Simply prosecuting the miscreant owners of attacking pit bulls after the damage is done (maiming, disfigurement, death, emotional trauma) is a hollow remedy. With freedom comes responsibility, and an obligation to mind the greater social good. Posted by Matt Rosenberg at June 19, 2005 10:43 AM Comments:
This is just getting ridiculous. This is a joke, right? First of all, "Dawn" even if a real character, is in a very, very small minority among dog trainers. What is more, I am curious as to what her training, qualifications and experiences are for her to say things like "...pit bulls are the only breed I used to work with that would become violent." If that statement is true, it leads me to the conclusion that "Dawn" has not worked with enough dogs. I am not even a dog trainer, but *I* have seen breeds of many dogs go violent in and outside dog training facilities. My dogs and I have been attacked by other dogs on walks (once by an APBT), and I have the Animal Control records to prove it. If another reader of rosenblog or Matt himself is truly interested in the issue, I urge him to call either Larry Babb at Paws-Abilities (http://www.everydoghas.com/) or the Academy of Canine Behavior. These are the two most respected dog behavior modification schools in the area. Ask Larry, for example, about "only pit bulls going violent" or a "trainer" who says things like that. My dogs and I have trained under Larry. He has bite marks all over his body (not from my dogs, of course). I've seen another dog try to bite him right in front of my eyes. He has trained a German Shepherd Dog that was violently attacking people to become one of the highest ranked obedience GSDs in the country. Ask him about all the stuff that is being discussed here. Cesar Milan, a dog trainer who is now a huge celebrity in the dog world, not least because of his appearance on Oprah (he helped Oprah with her dog's aggression and misbehavior -- and it's not a Pit Bull -- although he brought one of his pits to help train Oprah's "little cute dog"), and has a program called "The Dog Whisperer" on National Geographic channel, in on the record saying that he has a special fondness for APBTs.He has rescued dozens of dogs that now live with him, retrained and resocialized properly that now live peacefully in a huge pack (many of them are of the "Pit Bull" variety). Many of those Pit Bulls are used to help train other dogs. I don't want to rehash all that I've said before. I would urge Matt to study the issue some and listen to a wide variety of dog trainers and canine behavior experts with an open mind before making authoritative pronoucements based on Google clippings. Secondly, I must confess I am disappointed that Matt, hitherto a supposed advocate of individual responsibility, has suddenly turned statist-communal responsibility advocate. If we are to take that approach to all things that can be misused, there'd be no end to banning things in the name of "protecting children." But I guess that is what being "moderate" means -- advocating "reasonable" control or ban where one's own preferences are not stake. It reminds me of the ACLU position ("Free speech! It's in the Constitution, you know! Oh, guns? We don't like guns. They should be banned or resonably regulated"). Posted by: Guns and Butter/James J. Na at June 19, 2005 01:51 PM"Simply prosecuting the miscreant owners of attacking pit bulls after the damage is done (maiming, disfigurement, death, emotional trauma) is a hollow remedy. With freedom co-mes responsibility, and an obligation to mind the greater social good." But that is how our justice system works, Matt! This is unbelievable! Our justice system is based on punishment after there is a crime to 1) deter future crime and 2) remove the individual who committed the crime where necessary. There is no "pre-Crimes" unit in the real world. You seem to forget that the freedom and responsibility are INDIVIDUAL! In a free society, you are responsible for your OWN actions and consequences of those actions, not those of others! For example, alcohol consumption is related to a lot of "maiming, disfigurement, death, emotional trauma." Do you ban alcohol consumption for all because a small number of idiots get drunk and then hurt others? You drink alcohol. I don't see you doing an outreach to "police" others who drink alcohol and commit violent acts. Let's talk some statistics about dogs (http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html): "It is necessary to emphasize that a fatal dog attack is an exceptionally unusual event. Approximating 20 deaths per year in a dog population of 53 million yields an infinitesimal percent of the dog population (.0000004%) involved in a human fatality." "Victim Profile The age group with the highest number of fatalities were children under the age of 1 year old; accounting for 19% of the deaths due to dog attack. Over 95% of these fatalities occurred when an infant was left unsupervised with a dog(s). The age group with the second-highest number of fatalities were 2-year-olds; accounting for 11% of the fatalities due to dog attack. Over 87% of these fatalities occurred when the 2-year-old child was left unsupervised with a dog(s) or the child wandered off to the location of the dog(s). Boys aged 1 - 12 years old were 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of a fatal dog attack than girls of the same age. Breeds Involved Reproductive Status of Dogs From 2000-2001 there were 41 fatal dog attacks. Of these, 28 were attacks by a single dog and 13 fatalities were caused by multiple dogs. Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001; 26 were males and 2 were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined)." To summarize: 1. An infinitesimal percent of the dog population (.0000004%) involved in a human fatality. So, is this a breed thing even though "Pit Bulls" are, admittedly, the highest rated offenders at 21%? Or does the statistics show that when children under 12 (79%) come into contact with intact male dogs (75%) there is substantially greater potential for fatal attack? Even if you don't care for individual responsibility and rely instead purely on statistics, it seems you should advocate banning intact males (or males in general) rather than Pit Bulls. Afterall, 75% or 92.8% shows heck of higher "co-efficient" of correlations than 21%. What say you? Posted by: Guns and Butter/James J. Na at June 19, 2005 02:43 PMI'm all in favor of some pre-emptive action regarding pit-bulls. The existance of the breed is akin to riskless endangerment. Lets take down these animals. Posted by: Gary B at June 19, 2005 04:40 PMThat should read reckless endangerment. Posted by: Gary B at June 19, 2005 04:41 PM"I'm all in favor of some pre-emptive action regarding pit-bulls. The existance of the breed is akin to riskless endangerment." Well, everyone's got an opinion just like everyone has... well you get the point. Clearly you haven't read the stats I presented. Here's another bit for you if you like news clipping-based opinion-forming so much: "Examination of newspaper archival records dating back to the 1950’s and 1960’s reveal the same types of severe and fatal attacks occurring then as today. The only difference is the breed of dog responsible for these events. A random study of 74 severe and fatal attacks reported in the Evening Bulletin (Philadelphia, PA) from 1964-1968, show no severe or fatal attacks by Rottweilers and only one attack attributed to a Pit-Bull-type dog. The dogs involved in most of these incidents were the breeds that were popular at the time." http://www.fataldogattacks.com/index.html Let's repreat. "The dogs involved in the most of these incidents were THE BREEDS THAT WERE POPULAR AT THE TIME" [capitals mine]. Posted by: Guns and Butter/James J. Na at June 19, 2005 06:06 PMMore: http://ncrf2004.tripod.com/id9.html "A Specific Case of Severe or Fatal Attack in the Community Proposed breed specific legislation as the result of an individual severe or fatal dog attack in a community appears to be a phenomena that arises almost exclusively from a Pit Bull or Rottweiler attack. Severe or fatal attacks by other breeds of dogs almost never initiate this kind of response. Another serious problem with the image of Pit Bulls is the over-reporting of Pit Bull attacks vs. other breed attacks. Unquestionably, a disporportionate amount of media attention is given to Pit Bull attacks. One example of this is a recent fatal attack in Detroit by a Pit Bull. This story ran in over 30 separate national newspapers and was also picked up by FOX news, CNN and two British newspapers. Two weeks earlier a man was killed by his German Shepherd Dog and this story ran only in the local community newspaper." Posted by: Guns and Butter/James J. Na at June 19, 2005 06:37 PMLet me emphasize this again: "Another serious problem with the image of Pit Bulls is the over-reporting of Pit Bull attacks vs. other breed attacks. Unquestionably, a disporportionate amount of media attention is given to Pit Bull attacks. One example of this is a recent fatal attack in Detroit by a Pit Bull. This story ran in over 30 separate national newspapers and was also picked up by FOX news, CNN and two British newspapers. Two weeks earlier a man was killed by his German Shepherd Dog and this story ran only in the local community newspaper." No media senationalism, huh, Matt? Posted by: Guns and Butter/aka James J. Na at June 19, 2005 06:41 PMYou want more? Here is THE study used by the Denver city AG to justify a Pit Bull ban: http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/dogbreeds.pdf See p. 839 (left column, near the bottom) to 840, specifically on breed bans. The authors actually point out many problems with such a ban! Posted by: Guns and Butter/James J. Na at June 19, 2005 06:48 PMOne more and I am done for the day (maybe): http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=823394&page=1 Legislation should be more focused on the owner and the owner's responsibility for the dog's behavior," Mann said. "In the end, it's the owner's fault." That is a view that is shared by the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and the American Kennel Club, as well as several dog owners' groups. There is little evidence that breed-specific laws make communities safer, either for people or for dogs, and the bans are expensive and difficult to enforce, these groups say. A study carried out by a task force in Prince Georges County [which has a pit bull ban] in 2003 found that public safety had not improved, and that "there is no transgression committed by owner or animal that is not covered by another non-breed-specific portion of the animal control code." "Almost all the cities and counties where all of a sudden lawmakers want to pass these bans, there has been almost no enforcement of the laws they [already] have," said Patti Strand, of the National Animal Interest Alliance, a Portland, Ore.-based association of pet owners, dog and cat clubs, obedience clubs, and rescue groups as well as breeders, trainers, veterinarians, and other animal professionals. In Denver [where there is a pit bull ban despite prohibition of such ban per state law], city officials estimated that there were 4,500 pit bulls, despite the 16-year-old ban... But there is a more telling statistic in the research available on dog attacks, said Ledy VanKavage, an attorney with the ASPCA. Some 95 percent of the attacks on humans come from dogs that have not been spayed or neutered, and 70 percent of the attacks were committed by unneutered males, she said. "Legislators should look at the statistics and enact legislation to protect people from vicious dogs of any breed, whether it be Pomeranian or Rottweiler," VanKavage said. That means making it easier for people to get their pets spayed or neutered, and creating and enforcing legislation requiring people to be responsible dog owners, no matter what breed they have, she said. Strand said that is the kind of legislation the NAIA supports, as well. "Responsible dog ownership and reasonable, enforceable laws, not Draconian prohibitions, are the keys to preventing tragedies like the one that recently occurred in San Francisco," Strand said. "Breed-specific laws fail because they do not take into consideration the reality that any dog, regardless of its physical characteristics, must be raised, trained and socialized properly to become a good pet and canine good citizen." Posted by: Guns and Butter/James J. Na at June 19, 2005 06:55 PMI missed meeting my friends at a downtown restaurant bar on Madison one summer night a couple years ago. I stood outside wondering what to do and felt a baseball bat hit my lef and then I was on the ground. It wasn't a baseball bat. A pit bull leashed to a parking meter had lunged for me; his bared teeth left an imprint bruise on my calf and his bite shredded my pants. It seems I reacted quickly enough so that the dog didn't get an actual bite out of me. Still I was on the ground dazed and my pants torn from knee to ankle. I wish I could write that I gathered myself together, fetched a 3 wood from my trunk and used the dog's head for a tee but I didn't do that. The bartender came out, saw me on the pavement and cried "holy s--t!" and called the cops. The owner was some drifter a-hole who kept repeating "he's such a nice dog" while the crowd gathered and the cops took down my info. I begged the animal control to put the dog to sleep but the drifter drifted and I wasn't dead so I let it go...
I agree with Guns and Butter. "Dawn" is definitely NOT a qualified dog trainer. Her comments says it all. Quote: "she was corrected by taking her to the garbage, showing it to her and saying "No", she was not bopped, spanked or struck in any way during this correction." How is the dog suppose to associate the command "No" with the "shredding of garbage" when the command is not given at the precise moment that the dog committed the act? For example, if you want to teach a dog to sit, you wouldn't seat her and then say "Sit", you would instead give the command the moment the dog's bottom touch the ground. I my self am not a dog trainer, nor have I owned a dog. But I have been reading a lot about dog behavior and training in my free time. I intend to get a pitbull (because they are among the most loving and loyal creatures which equates to extraordinary companionship) after I get my BS in electrical engineering in two years and work a few years so that I can buy my own house. Yes folks, it will take me that long before I can own a pitbull because landlords these days are giving in to this crazy mass hysteria. Posted by: Just Passing By at June 25, 2005 08:03 PMI agree with Guns and Butter. "Dawn" is definitely NOT a qualified dog trainer. Her comments says it all. Quote: "she was corrected by taking her to the garbage, showing it to her and saying "No", she was not bopped, spanked or struck in any way during this correction." How is the dog suppose to associate the command "No" with the "shredding of garbage" when the command is not given at the precise moment that the dog committed the act? For example, if you want to teach a dog to sit, you wouldn't seat her and then say "Sit", you would instead give the command the moment the dog's bottom touch the ground. I my self am not a dog trainer, nor have I owned a dog. But I have been reading a lot about dog behavior and training in my free time. I intend to get a pitbull (because they are among the most loving and loyal creatures which equates to extraordinary companionship) after I get my BS in electrical engineering in two years and work a few years so that I can buy my own house. Yes folks, it will take me that long before I can own a pitbull because landlords these days are giving in to this crazy mass hysteria. Posted by: Just Passing By at June 25, 2005 08:05 PMSorry for the double post below. By the way, check out this very recent news article that never made it to national television (I think, I may just not be aware of it). http://www.fox21.com/Global/story.asp?S=3456745 The victim is a "pitbull", which the media fails to mention. Read the article and then question yourself how this can possibly occur to a "killer" dog? The behavior of individual dogs that maul is not representative of the breed. Rather, it is a reflection of the owners' care. And on that note, I would agree that most pitbull owners tend to be young, inexperienced dog owners and fail to responsibly and properly train and socialize their dogs during the important puppy/developmental stage. Furthermore, a lot of pitbull owners tend to physically abuse their pitbulls, which usually have negative impacts on the pitbull's personality and behavior. Imagine, if you beat your kids, they too will have a tendency to be violent when they reach their maturity stage. So I think the problem is not with pitbulls, but with "UNTRAINED/MISTREATED/NEGLECTED DOGS" in general. Dog owners, and more specifically pitbull owners (given the dog's bad reputation), will simply have to be canine-educated. I also think the media is unfairly singling out the pitbull to feed the general crowd and to fuel the pitbull's bad reputation, which is pretty sad. They will add hype to the pitbull's bad reputation when possible while omitting information that would lead you to think otherwise. Most people in general will not take the time to read up and look into the pitbull's personality and thus, their only exposure to them is through the media. So in essence, it is the media that dictates the attitudes that they will harbor towards pitbulls. Very sad indeed. Posted by: Just Passing By at June 25, 2005 08:14 PMI am sad to read the unfair statements made. My female pit was 3 months old when she tried to rescue me after a fall. Can you imagine a 3 month old rescuing an adult? I was walking her in the middle of winter and I slipped and fell letting loose of her leash. She came right up to me and grabbed my arm with her mouth and tried to pull me up. I suppose if any one had seen her, they might have thought she was biting me. Guess you have never been ATTACKED --and that is the correct word --not biten ---by a pit bull. I don't wish that on anyone but when it happens to you and it my well, because I believe they are like a loaded gun and you can NEVER tell when they will ATTACK you and then I think you will quickly change your opinions. Guess you have never been ATTACKED --and that is the correct word --not biten ---by a pit bull. I don't wish that on anyone but when it happens to you and it my well, because I believe they are like a loaded gun and you can NEVER tell when they will ATTACK you and then I think you will quickly change your opinions. Guess you have never been ATTACKED --and that is the correct word --not biten ---by a pit bull. I don't wish that on anyone but when it happens to you and it my well, because I believe they are like a loaded gun and you can NEVER tell when they will ATTACK you and then I think you will quickly change your opinions. I have read all comments regarding PBT. In every decent, viable website(S) regarding this species warns "this breed is an aggressive breed". So to me THE SPECIES OF ALL PIT BULL TERRIORS ARE IN FACT, AGRESSIVE! THIS TRAIT IS INHERRENT OF THE 3 TYPES OF DOGS IN THIS GROUP: THE STRATSFORDSHIRE TERRIOR, AMERICAN PIT BULL, AND THE AM STAFF.!! AND THESE ARE THE "PURE BRED SPECIES". ALSO, THE SECOND COMMENT FROM JEWEL SAYS THAT THE "ATTACK WAS FROM A STRATTSFORDSHIRE TERRIOR" is in fact part of the species classified as Pit Bulls. THEREFORE, SHE WAS INDEED ATTACKED BY A PIT BULL TERRIOR! ALSO, THE INFO GIVEN ON THE STATISTICS OF THE "FATAL DOG ATTACKS" the author does NOT give any info of where the stats come from. We do not have anyway to document his opinions. I do; however, get the point. ONE WEBSITE: PRBC, AND THE AKC, & UKKC report the same info on this species, Stahlkuppe (1995) writes "The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT), or the AmStaff, is certainly not the right pet for everyone. Being a powerful dog, it will require sufficient and adequate control. Some prospective elderly owners or children, will not be able to supply that control... A first-time dog owner, in the minds of many experienced dog breeders, should not buy an APBT or an AmStaff!. An insecure person who wants only an aggressive dog to bolster some personal human inadequacy should never become an owner of one of these dogs. An uncaring or negligent person should not buy an AmStaff or an APBT (or any other dog for that matter)." Another very important characteristic of Pit Bull dogs is their amazing love of people. Many people are surprised by the loving personality of these dogs the first time they meet one. Pit Bull dogs are indeed remarkably affectionate and truly enjoy human attention. They are wonderful cuddlers, and nothing beats a belly rub. In fact, most Pit Bulls think they are lap dogs! Dunbar (1999) writes: "Today, a properly bred Pit Bull is so exuberantly happy upon meeting her owner's friends (or even friendly strangers) that new owners sometimes worry that their dog is too sweet and fun-loving to protect their home and family... A multitalented companion, the well-trained Pit Bull is suited for a variety of exciting activities. He excels at obedience, agility and weight-pulling competitions, events which showcase intelligence, trainability and strength. In addition, the Pit Bull's pleasant nature makes him an ideal candidate for therapy work with people." Human aggression, severe shyness, and instability are not traits typically found and accepted in the APBT breed. Dogs with these traits are not good representatives of the breed and should not be placed into adoptive homes. Like any other breed, Pit bulls can develop behavior problems if poorly bred, mishandled, abused, unsocialized, etc., that could result in inappropriate aggression. Any large, strong, and powerful dog that attacks can do a lot of damage. This is why temperament evaluation is important when dealing with dogs of certain size and potential. Unlike the myth propagated by the media however, human aggression is NOT a problem specific to the Pit Bull breed. In fact, Pit Bulls tend to do better than average in temperament tests. The American Temperament Test Society provides temperament testing around the country for dog breeds, and gives a passing score for the entire breed based on the percentage of passed over failed within total number of the particular breed tested. As of December 2003, the American Pit Bull Terrier has a current passing rate of 83.9%, and the American Staffordshire Terrier passes at 83.2%. In comparison, The Golden Retriever passing rate is 83.2%" THIS WARNING IS SIMILAR IN ALL OF THE GOOD WEBSITES THAT I HAVE READ. THE PROBLEMS OF THE THREE TYPES OFDOGS THAT ARE CLASSIFIED IN THIS SPECIES ARE: My daughter and her husband just aquired an AM Staff and they ARE NOT responsible dog owners. I think the reputation of PBTs creates an element of a "bad ass" owner and perpetuates the stories of attacks on people and other animals. Our government will try and protect the victims from the stupidity of the majority of these dog owners. I have more knowledge and a new respect for these dogs; but in fact the "purest of blood lines" is still considered AGRESSIVE..PERIOD! "Pit Bull type dogs are wonderful, loving, and very loyal companions. It is important however, to understand the breed's nature, to provide a structured environment, and to establish a positive leadership role. In order to do so, Pit Bull owners must understand the original purpose of the breed, and respect its limit and potential." I live in Louisiana and unfortunately, DOG FIGHTING IS STILL LEGAL IN SOME PARISHES! Posted by: Lynn at August 1, 2005 11:49 AMHey, Im a veterinary technician of almost 20 years. I can assure you that the majority of aggressive dogs that least Ive seen over the last almost 20 years were Labs and Goldens!!!! dawn is a liar or a fool or both. pit bulls have been proven to be no more violent or aggressive or even potentially dangerous than any other breed of dog Posted by: dog guy at January 3, 2006 10:24 AMPost a comment
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