Niggers vs. Blacks (3376 hits)
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Submitted by Matt Maiorano (View user info) at 2004-07-01 13:30:47

AMEN to the first comment!AMEN!black people and white people are the sames.its the stupid black people who want to act like they have no education and no morals who make the rest of them,the decent ones,look bad!

Fear of a Black Planet:

That's about what I see when I read comments like the one from snow white. If "sheeple" in this country ever begin to think for themselves instead of buying into every media hype going, we may be on our way to something grand.

Lets see. Walk with me on this one:
Example 1: I'm at a pizza spot in Athens, Ga with two female friends and some of their white associates. We leave and the waitress comes running out of the restaurant...after me, the only black male in the group. (go figure) She begins screaming that I didn't pay. Now, other white males begin to gather around the commotion. After I not so nicely showed her the receipt (it was one of the other dudes that decided to skip out) she then proceeds to ask me for a tip. I toss a quarter at her feet and she walks off.

Example 2: Continuation from Ex. 1. The 3-4 white males who had gathered (obviously intoxicated) began to question me about why I "talked to her like that". See, I too can't stand cowards. So, after a few words and them threatening to kick my "black a$$", a few brothas (who I didn't know) walk over and offer assistance. At that point (now that its even) apologies begin to flow out explaining that they were just drunk and didn't mean anything. Cowards.

Example 3: In the Marriot Marquis downtown Atlanta during SEC football championship. Young, white college kids running around the hotel doing any and everything. This is in stark contrast to the heavy security and police presence during black college weekend (a.k.a. Freaknik) 6 mos. before. No police, and security was just there to make sure no one hurt the hotel. Didn't work. A few kids tossed a Coke machine (yes the entire thing) from about 8 floors up. Pictures in the paper the next day showed the hotel trashed. Yet, they were welcomed back again the next year. Not so for the black college students, who, by the way per cities stats, spent just as much money during their weekend as did the white college students.

I won't even get into the whole "police" thing. That would be a blog of its own. And these are just personal stories, experienced first hand.

I'm not upset with you snow white. We are all molded by our experience. With all your forefathers (Washington, Jefferson, Franklin) have done to create a system where you can thrive and survive without having to endure all sorts of hardships, turmoil and unprovoked evils, how can you sit on your butts in the Appalachian mountains and recieve MORE welfare that these so-called "niggers"? How can you, after a 400 year head-start in education, still in good conscious use the Legacy system to get placement in a university you couldn't get into on your own? (Hello Bush?) How can you sit on your farms and in your trailer parks and in every NASCAR event and butcher the language that, historically, YOU helped create?

Nitpick all you will, people. With all the previous examples, the majority will say the same thing. "These are just isolated incidents. That's not how all of us act." And that will be an acceptable answer. But you will fail to implement the law of reciprocation and continue to group and stereotype people of color.

Mr. Bobby? May I suggest you go here: http://www.debradickerson.com/index.htm

By the way, I am from a farming family. To say, "How can you sit on your farms and in your trailer parks and in every NASCAR event and butcher the language that, historically, YOU helped create?" would mean that you are guilty of stereotyping yourself, wouldn't it? Then to follow it with, "With all your forefathers (Washington, Jefferson, Franklin) have done to create a system where you can thrive and survive without having to endure all sorts of hardships, turmoil and unprovoked evils," is quite the substantiation that you no more understand mainstream whites and their situation, than they understand you.

I like the "sheeple" comment. Perhaps you should look past the prevarications that have been passed down to you... and do a little more thinking yourself. I think you are on the right track, maybe we all should just internalize a bit more.

It's not about "becoming white," or being successful in the "white man's" world. It's about family, morals, and being successful... period.

The following is an excerpt from:
Cosby: Bourgeois Elitist or Teller of Hard Truths?
by Jeff Winbush
(from Deborah Dickerson.com)

"What 'lower economic people' should take from Cosby's speech is that you can't get a job looking like you just walked off the set of a 50 Cent rap video. Not in 99 percent of workplaces in America. You can 'keep it real' or you can break out that suit in the back of the closet you keep for funerals and weddings and get a job. That's what Cosby is talking about. As my father told me, 'The world doesn't need as many strong backs and weak minds as it used to.'"

"Society certainly has a role to play in the elimination of social inequality and lack of opportunity. But if a black kid has skills with a microphone in one hand and a basketball in the other [that] are greater than his math, English and social skills he's probably going to emptying the wastebaskets of the Bill Gates of the world instead of becoming the next one. We live in a world where the biggest barrier to a black person's success is an inability to recognize the barrier is no longer there."

Hey Thanks for the link. Interesting read. Let me clarify one thing. I'm an English major. So often while writing I'll over-dramatize a parody just to make a point. That was exactly what I did on that last post in response to snow white. If you read the last line, I also stated that the prior examples were isolated things and that to stereotype based on just those incidents is ridiculous, yet that is what happens to black people on a daily basis and everyone seems okay with that. So that's why I put that out there. Are there more white people on welfare than black people? Yes. Do alot of people who attend NASCAR events (which I happen to like) speak "improper English"? Yes. Are there regions of white people in trailer parks and mountainous shacks that rival the poverty of any inner city ghetto? Yes. All these things are fact. Does it then make sense for me to lump the majority of white people into any number of these sub-groups and say "that's just what I keep seeing" as an excuse to call it fact? No, it doesn't. Neither does it make sense to do that in the cases of people of color, as has been done in many of these previous posts and continues to be done in this country on a daily basis. Really 'preciate the post.

Actually, to back track from a comment by chris made july 2,

1- black women who actually look black, don't have a chance in hell of winning miss america. When they do, i will jump for joy

2-Mtv was CCTV. They stopped when they realized they could make more money degrading black folks. Viacom, which owns MTV and a lot of other things, also owns BET, so bet really isn't black entertainment.

3- Black colleges do accept white, usually with higher scholarships than they give to blacks. And there are plenty of schools, such as Bates, where there are 4 black students, and all of them are international. So there are still "white schools" in this country.

Am i saying this country isn't racist? No. But i do agree with mr cosby. we need to stop being victims, and stop victimizing ourselves. My mom got SPIT ON when she went go school. SPIT f#$*ing on. And now, after years of busting my a##, listing to BLACK elders tell me i wasn't going to amount to anything (i've gotten more racism from my own people than whites btw), after studing and getting the grades (single parent household), after ton's of whites asking me "where are you from" and "am i carribean or african" (they can and do distinguish now, at least in the north) I get crap from my own people for speaking ENGLISH. My family is from the south. We are country folks. but when we apply for jobs, we know that we won't get hired if we can't even communicate with people that were born in the same country as us!! And names like "oranjello" has no basis in africa. If you want to give your child a strong warrior african name, then also prepare them for the crap they will get when people can't pronounced their name and don't bother to try. And don't hire them in jobs, because that's the way people are. We are the only nation in this country that is immediately sterotyped as ignorant, and we perpetuate it. We are a small nation, and each and every one of us needs to work hard to change our image. Seriously, why does you baby need to be in fubu (owned by whites) and tommy hillfiger and you can barely make ends meet? Why are we spending 60 a month to get our hair done and can barely feed our families. this is more than about income. there are plenty of blacks whose parents work hard to be above the poverty line, only for thier children to act a damn fool because they just aren't black if they aren't acting ignorant. Black should be about endurance, strenth, hope. We have come through so much, and we are letting the white image of blackness keep us down

Myth: People on welfare are usually black, teenage mothers who stay on ten years at a time.

Fact: Most welfare recipients are non-black, adult and on welfare less than two years at a time.

But, we are guilty of skewing the point when we state "numbers" and not "percentages."

Blacks comprise only 12 percent of the nation, but, according to [government] figures, they comprise over 37 percent of the welfare rolls. [averaging all programs] This should not be surprising; in 1994, blacks had a poverty rate of 33 percent. We should not, of course, think it unusual to find poor people on welfare. Consequently, discussions of race and welfare must turn on different issues.

The most prevalent question is why there are so many blacks in poverty. Some liberals argue that it is the result of continuing racism and discrimination, especially at hiring time. Some conservatives have argued a variety of other causes: moral shortcomings, poor work ethic, even intellectual inferiority. Another important question is whether welfare causes poverty. Question... how to stop perpetuating the cycle? The answer... education. (Hence Cosby's suggestion that we not let the victory of Brown vs. Board of Education go to waste.)

Check out: http://www.heritage.org/research/features/familydatabase/results.cfm?Key=305

Finding: For every additional year of education a woman had, there was an 11-month decrease in the duration in which she received welfare cash benefits.
Martin, Molly A.
Journal of Marriage and Family
2003

As for your statement, "Does it then make sense for me to lump the majority of white people into any number of these sub-groups and say 'that's just what I keep seeing' as an excuse to call it fact? No, it doesn't." No it doesn't, yet you state unequivocally that, "We are all molded by our experience." Perception is reality.

Everyone is not ok with what happens to blacks... and thinking that this happens to all blacks on a regular basis comes from being "molded by [your] experience." All of these may be isolated incidents. But these incidents need to stop, from both sides. I think we are coming around as a nation, and snow white's stories, along with yours, show we have a long way to go.

"you will fail to implement the law of reciprocation" ? I think that these attitudes do implement "what you give you receive," in a negative way. Is that what you are saying?

Practice random acts of kindness.

Bravo, chev!

After reading some of the following post I have come up with a question: Are blacks acting a damn fool because of discrimination or are they discriminated against because of acting a damn fool?
Some one posted a site for Debra Dickerson. I went to her site and found several interesting and agreeable comments. I believe Mrs. Dickerson said it best when she said, "If a magic wand ended white racism tomorrow at noon, the black community would not be very much changed at 12:01. White racism doesn’t mug a neighbor at the bus stop, it doesn’t have unprotected sex or drop out of high school. It doesn’t underachieve, it doesn’t give up on the trouble students, it doesn’t give in to hopelessness and settle for a life behind a broom, it doesn’t favor its boys over its girls. It doesn’t refuse to breastfeed, it doesn’t infect fifty per cent of its young with herpes, it doesn’t believe ignorant conspiracy theories or that AIDS is a hoax. It doesn’t watch endless hours of television instead of reading to its children or overseeing their homework or taking them to a cultural event. It matters not at all whether white rates of these same phenomena are higher or lower; all that matters is that they are too high for black comfort. This is not who they want to be. There is work to do and it must be done by black people, however whites behave."
I, a black female, have experienced more discrimination and ridicule from people of my own race rather than people of other races.

After reading some of the following post I have come up with a question: Are blacks acting a damn fool because of discrimination or are they discriminated against because of acting a damn fool?

Some one posted a site for Debra Dickerson. I went to her site and found several interesting and agreeable comments. I believe Mrs. Dickerson said it best when she said, "If a magic wand ended white racism tomorrow at noon, the black community would not be very much changed at 12:01. White racism doesn’t mug a neighbor at the bus stop, it doesn’t have unprotected sex or drop out of high school. It doesn’t underachieve, it doesn’t give up on the trouble students, it doesn’t give in to hopelessness and settle for a life behind a broom, it doesn’t favor its boys over its girls. It doesn’t refuse to breastfeed, it doesn’t infect fifty per cent of its young with herpes, it doesn’t believe ignorant conspiracy theories or that AIDS is a hoax. It doesn’t watch endless hours of television instead of reading to its children or overseeing their homework or taking them to a cultural event. It matters not at all whether white rates of these same phenomena are higher or lower; all that matters is that they are too high for black comfort. This is not who they want to be. There is work to do and it must be done by black people, however whites behave."

I, a black female, have experienced more discrimination and ridicule from people of my own race rather than people of other races.

Okay, there's no more need for me to make any more comparisons about how similar the races are in regards to "negative stereotypes", although Tina, I do not believe perception is reality. If I believe someone to be unintelligent because of what I see, that can't discount their PhD or their law degree from Harvard.

Now, as far as opening up another can of worms. The basis of these Cosby statements is the 50th anniversary of Brown vs. Board of Education and the "desegregation" of schools. Personally, I think it was one of the worst things that could have happened to black children and, in turn, black adults. The moment you place your children, especially during that period in history, into the education hands of those who do not have their best interest at heart, you have handed your lambs over to the wolves. This is something I blame solely on us as a people. Not only did we send our brightest away (busing) to be indoctrinated into this system, but in the same instance we left behind a shell of an education system for those who refused to or simply couldn't go. Funny, busing never seemed to send white kids to an all black school. But, this is not about them. It's about us. So, if Cosby wants to speak to his $500/plate audience about how they aren't holding up their end of the bargain by removing their families, their income (which plays a part in a community's education finances) their resources, their business and all sorts of other community-building influences out of the black community and into predominately white neighborhoods, then okay. If we're going to challenge our people, lets do it across the board. And before people begin responding about how "wouldn't you leave if people were breaking into your house and drugs were being sold outside and...and...". I hear you. But what do you expect to happen to these communities after 50 years (Brown v. Board) of economic atrophy? Okay...ready. Set. Go...

I wasn’t stereotyping and I’m not ignorant. A lot of blacks are a nuisance to American society. It doesn’t really matter though because blacks are a dying population. However, it seems the way they procreate at a rapid speed they will be around for a while. I could care less. I have never lived where black people do and never will. I am racist and not just against black people but also other races including whites. However, everyone is racist so what does it matter.

Okay, rross or anyone else. Would you like to defend sarah's statements now? Contrary to your thoughts, sarah, I'm not mad at you or people like you, for not wanting to live around black people. I, for one, have no desire to uproot my family and place them in an environment where no one around them has any cultural connection. Kudos to you for that. I do not believe everyone is racist or prejudiced. I believe we all have some prejudices and if we refuse to research or delve deeper to determined if those prejudices are founded, then that makes us ignorant. Have I ever lived in a white community? Yep. Enjoyed it while I was there. Would I choose to do so now? Nope. I love living around people who look, talk and culturally connect like me. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, which is why I would support you in that part of your statement. I do believe, however, that your reasoning and rationale makes you ignorance, because you refuse to see anything else. Doesn't make you wrong...just ignorant.

"So, if Cosby wants to speak to his $500/plate audience about how they aren't holding up their end of the bargain by removing their families, their income (which plays a part in a community's education finances) their resources, their business and all sorts of other community-building influences out of the black community and into predominately white neighborhoods, then okay."

I believe Cosby did say this when he spoke of "taking back the community," and black's should be owning the businesses in said community. Although your obvious intelligence may dicate differently for you, Bobby, for most people, what they "perceive" becomes their truth, and hence, their reality. A piece of paper from Harvard doesn't make you intelligent, it makes you educated. If I had a dollar for ever "educated idiot" I've met in my life, I could retire. You've met them, you know a few I'm sure. These were the people that Professors taught "what to think," and not "how to think."

Ok, Bobby... not to actually "defend" Sarah's statements, merely her "right" to speak her mind. (since she's an "equal opportunity racist" and hates everybody... I'd like to know her ethnicity)

Not unlike I said before, not ignorant, just typical. As Tina has pointed out Sarah's "perception is her reality." She, it seems, suffers from a predisposition to narrow-mindedness.

But, she says, "A lot of blacks are a nuisance to American society." She's right. (except I would say "some" instead of "a lot.") But she left out the whites and browns and yellows and purples that are a nuisance as well. Not distinguishing between color and attitude is a prevalent problem in America.

Regardless of whether or not I agree with her. I'll at least give her the respect due for being that candid. I believe freedom of speech applies to her as well as you and I. Like I said the first time I commented on her post... "Am I defending her view? Absolutely not. Do I understand how she got it? Definitely. Our culture aids in the production of 'selective insight.'"

Everyone is an example, it's your choice whether the example you set is good or bad.

I do agree and understand that all "truth" is relative, Tina. Yet, if I have be taught that an animal which barks is a cat and I hear a dog and call it a cat, that is my perception...not truth. And if someone tries to enlighten me to explain what a dog is and I refuse to hear it and continue calling it a cat, I'm ignorant for doing so. And yeah, I know many an "educated idiot" so I hear ya on that point. Just as I'm sure you know many an intelligent person that some perceive as unintelligent simply because they don't know anything about them and refuse to learn.

If Cosby was putting out his feelings in what some may feel are "harsh" or "belittling" tones in order to spark a wake up call, then okay. My point is, he pulled out alot of negative imagery to make his point about those in a lower socio-economic status than he did about those who attended the speech. Why, then, didn't he use the same language for them, if indeed he was attempting to spark a "wake up call"? Never did I see him refer to any of them as "hypocritical" or "traitors to your community" or "status-happy turncoats" or "get off your comfortable, lazy, how-soon-we-forget-from-whence-we've-come fat butts". Not one harsh statement was put out in their direction. Once again, if it was all about unity, make it unified. This means the good and the bad.

Touche' rross. I completely uphold and support sarah's right to free speech. Actually, I welcome it. Dialog is the first step in understanding another's p.o.v., not necessarily agreeing, but understanding. That's part of my point with people like Cosby. Don't stand off and preach. Come in and communicate. That means talk AND listen. Dialog. So that when the communication is done, I have learned as well as taught and hopefully you have done the same. Time out for all that podium lecturing. Lets meet on some common ground and exchange energies. I just wonder if some of us are too elitist to come down or some of us are too ignorant to come up. I believe its a combination of both.

Valid points Bobby. May I just ask, you've thrown the word ignorant out there quite a bit... what is the definition of "ignorant" that you hold true? (not to incite riot, just to see your p.o.v.)

No Websters or anything, just my own personal definition: not knowing or a refusal to know. Very simple. I don't use it to be demeaning or crass. It's just the most appropriate word I can use for the previous posts.

Thanks. That helps.

"Funny, busing never seemed to send white kids to an all black school."

Boy, it did here. Hence the white flight that left the public schools 90% black in this city. Black parents didn't want to have their kids bussed across the city to unfamiliar schools either, but it was mostly white families who had the resources at the time to send their kids to private schools or to move. My husband was bussed to 3 different schools in one semester during that craziness, and dropped out after that year (10th grade). Lots of other kids did too. At least he took the GED. Our mayor, who got his education in one of the black schools prior to desegregation, and who was superintendent of schools here for a time, views that entire experiment with a jaundiced eye; he says it didn't help the black kids any but it did destroy the black neighborhood schools.

Bobby J,
Just out of curiosity…what cultural connections do African Americans have? I'm black and I guess I just don't know what the connection is. It is my belief that we lost that connection; well actually it was stripped from us. Anyhow, please tell me of this culture that African Americans have. Is it a connection to Africa, because sometimes they alienate themselves from American born Blacks?

Bill Cosby ignored the fact that US slavery is the cause of African-American povery and every other social ill in our community. Anyone who does not think so should immediately volunteer their family for at least two hundred years of forced labor. Your names will be changed and you will have no rights. It will be illegal for you to have a book or learn to read it, punishable by death. Upon your assingment to the shack in which you will live, your wife and daughters will be invited to a little party. If you don't the idea of my planting seed into your female relatives, you can count on being buried up to your neck and having honey poured on your head for ants to eat, or maybe having your anal cavity packed with gunpowder and lit afire. The children resulting from the continual rape sessions will be named Bill, Cosby, and other fine names. These babies will also be slaves, but they will be told how much better they are then the others, and given slightly better situations so they'll always buffer the master against the masses. Then we'll see how your family is doing around 140 years after you are "freed," also factoring in decades of Jim Seagull laws, assassination of leaders who rise up to elevate the former slaves, and distribution of narcotics into your community. Your volunteering for this experiment will help eliminate poverty in the African-American community. Any takers?

What Dr. Cosby is talking about is a disease that has reached epidemic proportions in the Black community. It's called anti-intellectualism.

Cosby isn't the first to go off on the Culture of Stupidity. So has Spike Lee and Chris Rock and Oprah Winfrey and Colin Powell and Magic Johnson and Charles Barkley and The Boondocks.

It's already hard enough to raise a chid positively in a world filled with so many negative stimuli. It's even harder when forces conspire to keep that child stupid.

Violent, misgyonist rap keeps black folks stupid. Celebration of pimp, thug, and being a sociopath culture keeps black folks stupid. Drugs, alcohol and too much greasy, starchy foods keeps black folks stupid. A steady diet of trash TV, no books, no computers, and no library cards keeps black folks stupid. Too much emphasis on immediate gratification, easy credit, and lack of fiscal discipline keeps black folks stupid. Too much emphasis on gold-capped teeth, $200 sneakers, tricked-out rides with the biggest rims, cell phones pressed to the ear, pit bull on a leash and pants hanging off the butt keep black folks stupid. Too much priority on being cool, getting paid and hustling instead of being smart keeps black folks stupid.

Dr. Cosby knows that as tough as the job market is in this global economy for White people it's ten times harder for Black people. Especially Black people who have a great color cell phone but no job to go to and put all their assets on their...posteriors...and have SUV's that cost more than the house they're parked in front of.

What "lower economic people" should take from Cosby's speech is that you can't get a job looking like you just walked off the set of a 50 Cent rap video. Not in 99 percent of workplaces in America. You can "keep it real" or you can break out that suit in the back of the closet you keep for funerals and weddings and get a job. That's what Cosby is talking about. As my father told me, "The world doesn't need as many strong backs and weak minds as it used to."

Society certainly has a role to play in the elimination of social inequality and lack of opportunity. But if a black kid has skills with a microphone in one hand and a basketball in the other are greater than his math, English and social skills he's probably going to emptying the wastebaskets of the Bill Gates of the world instead of becoming the next one. We live in a world where the biggest barrier to a black person's success is an inability to recognize the barrier is no longer there.

Was Cosby too harsh? Yes he was if the truth is harsh. If the truth is most of us aren't going to win American Idol, play point guard for the Lakers or become a mogul and Broadway star like P.Diddy. Most of us are going to have to get up, clean up and go get a crappy job doing something we hate for people we don't like. That is, if we haven't prepared ourselves for something else besides thinking about rings, material things and bling-bling.

Malcolm X said tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today. I doubt he meant slinging enough rocks to buy the new Air Jordans at Foot Locker.

Jeff Winbush is a freelance writer living in Columbus, Ohio

OHHH GOD!
It isn't like slavery just ended. Sure there is an after effect. But the way I see if, just because my people were enslaved for 400 years does not mean that I am going to ruin my child's life, or my life. I'm not going to have unprotected sex and contract AIDS because for 400 years my ancestors were enslaved. I'm not going to sit on my ass and not read to my child because for 400 years my people were enslaved. I'm not going to let a man with several other children impregnate me and then leave, because for 400 years.... I'm not going to drop out of school because for 400 years...I won't do it. Can't do it. People died so I would have the opportunity to get up off my ass and get an education and a job. They did it so I could have better because I deserve better.

Quitcher cryin adam. Just another liberal mouth that needs fed off my tax dollar because you want to blame whitey for your poverty? No one is in your way any more, go make a million bucks. Laws were passed and quotas created (oh yeah, by WHITE men in Congress) to give you a shot. Take it. Start a construction company, register yourself as a minority business owner, (better yet, have your wife do it... that's a "double minority" flag) and be guaranteed 3 million dollars in government contracts over ten years. Beats 40 acres and a mule, huh? Quit blaming slavery for the perils of a race. Nearly every race has been enslaved at one time or another... that doesn't stop individuals from excelling.

Here's a short list of people who would tell you to stop using the slavery crutch (after all, YOU weren't a slave) and do something with your life:

Thurgood Marshall
Ralph Bunche
The Tuskegee Airmen
Harriet Tubman
Maya Angelou
Clarence Thomas
Crispus Attucks
Benjamin Banneker
James Beckwourth
Guion Bluford
Mary McLeod Bethune
W.E.B. DuBois
Patricia Roberts Harris
Colin Powell
Phillis Wheatley

Quote: "'We, the people.' It is a very eloquent beginning. But when that document was completed...I was not included in that 'We, the people.' I felt somehow for many years that George Washington and Alexander Hamilton just left me out by mistake. But through the process of amendment, interpretation and court decision, I have finally been included in 'We, the people.'"

Barbara Jordan

Cosby is a simpleton; his shows and views are simple, superficial and straight-forward. Cosby's comments don't illuminate anything. Most of the problems facing blacks, hispanics and other marginalized groups in society are structural not personal, and they therefore cannot be solved by adjusting or fixing things on the personal level. To point the finger at the personal level is like saying that if Gore was president instead of Bush then the USA would not be in Iraq or it would not have gone into Afghanistan; this, however, is unsupportable considering the history of US foreign policy aims and practices. Bill Clinton, not Bush, was in the White House when Sudan medicine facilities and Afghan refugee camps were bombed in 1998. Bush is simply pursuing policies consistent with the structure of US capitalism and foreign policy that have been developed throughout the decades. Unless the structure is changed, changing the leader will do nothing to change the course of events. The problems facing blacks, hispanics and other marginalized groups are inherent in the structure of American society and those problems will not be bettered or rectified by simple personal choices. When there are no jobs because the factory moved to Mexico, it matters little what values you uphold because you will still be unemployed and poor and you're probably going to do something, even something illegal, to get food.

Cosby's comments were also incoherent and pointless. What does how one dresses have to do with what type of person one is or can be? What does someone's name have to do with defining a person and/or his/her potential? Cosby was just ranting, and he has little evidence to back anything up. Sure many people will applaud his comments; but these people are either ignorant or desperate for "white" approval or both.

The old maxim warns us to beware of priests who lose their faith but keep their jobs. By that logic, a whole lot of alleged spokespersons for black people should've been unemployed a long time ago. In the wake of Bill Cosby's now-famous Pound Cake Speech at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund's dinner commemorating the Brown v. Board of Education case, the comedian has been praised by white conservatives and black folk at large for essentially keeping it real. For airing dirty laundry. For saying in public what your uncle Bobby has been saying behind closed doors for years.
But hold on. Before you fix your mouth to sing Cosby's praises, consider this: the fact that some black people make similar comments in private does not make them any more accurate when they are spoken in public.

"Respectable" blacks have long felt it necessary to clean up, dust off and lead their less fortunate cousins into the promised land of social acceptance.
When it all gets down to the get-down, black people are no more immune to believing stereotypes about African Americans than anyone else — and Cosby's podium-pounding was full of the grossest stereotypes of poor black people. Even if you agreed with his hyperbolic claims of $500 sneakers taking precedence over Hooked on Phonics in the hood, even if you signed on to his 21st Century bootstrap prescriptions ("You can't blame white people for this"), it's impossible to ignore the classist, bigoted and reactionary underpinnings of his disdain for giving black children names like Shaniqua or Ali, or his justification of police shooting people in the back of the head for "stealing pound cake." (I have to wonder what Cosby would say to me, a black man with a Ph.D. and no criminal record, who has, nonetheless, had police pull guns on him three times in his life — once by an officer demanding that I walk on the sidewalk and not the street.) In the wake of Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima, in the wake of literally dozens of black people being arrested and imprisoned on false evidence in Tulia, Texas, two years ago, these comments are not only ignorant, but also extremely dangerous.

Amid all the national clatter that Cosby's comments have generated, it would be easy to miss the fact that there is nothing particularly new about his indictments — his prescriptions fit into a century-old program of bourgeois behavior modification directed at poor black people from their purportedly better-off kinfolk. The historian Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham has come up with a name for this phenomenon, referring to the idea that personal etiquette is a form of racial uplift as "the politics of respectability." Since at least as far back as the days when Du Bois announced his Talented Tenth program, the afrostocracy has felt it necessary to clean up, dust off and lead their less fortunate cousins into the promised land of social acceptance. Call this Negro Noblesse Oblige. This concern wasn't totally altruistic: black elites recognized that, in the reductive racial reasoning of the United States, the embarrassing behavior of poor black people would always compromise their own bourgeois standing. (This class tension led Tennessee to experiment with first-class and second-class sections within its segregated railroad cars.)

And though the two clashed bitterly on matters of personality and policy, both Booker T. Washington and Du Bois found common ground in advocating moral uplift among the Negro masses. Du Bois lamented in the pages of his masterful Philadelphia Negro that moral corruption and vice were the major afflictions among the newly arrived Southern migrants. Booker T. Washington famously urged his followers to become models of thriftiness, cleanliness and religious adherence, believing this would clear the way to racial uplift. During the same era, Elijah Montgomery, the founder of the all-black town of Mound Bayou, Mississippi, banned the sale of liquor in the area and conducted house-to-house investigations of the domestic arrangements of residents, ordering all couples who were not legally married to leave the district.

The question is not whether or not we've overcome, but whether some of us are too ghetto to even deserve to.
In the early 20th century, organizations like the National Association of Colored Women and the Women's Convention of the National Baptist Convention, keenly aware of the prevailing stereotypes of black female sexuality, advocated a program of abstinence and "virtue" as a means of defending their own collective honor. A nearly obsessive concern with personal behavior ties together movements as diverse as Garveyism, the Montgomery Bus Boycott (whose leadership quietly jettisoned the case of a young black teen who had been arrested for refusing to give up her seat months before Rosa Parks when it was discovered that she was pregnant and unmarried), the Nation of Islam and the activities of the National Urban League. (Urban Leaguers met newly arrived migrants with care packages that included soap, toothbrushes and lists of life "instructions" — which included warnings not to come outside with rollers in their hair or keep livestock in their yards.)

Taken on its face, a "morality" agenda — however that is defined — may have been useful; unplanned pregnancy and crime did negatively impact black people's lives. The problem, however, lies in the theory that this "morality" would somehow vanquish racism — which has as its underlying premise the inability to recognize any black person as moral in the first place. And "morality" has frequently been conflated with a simple, assimilationist ideal of white behavior — which is why Cosby could so easily lump naming a child "LaQuita" or speaking non-standard English into the same category as theft and disdain for education. When you get down to it, how decent can you be when you saddle your kids with names like that? What kind of person — besides a whole lot of those who were fighting off police dogs in Birmingham — doesn't bother to conjugate correctly? The question is not whether or not we've overcome, but whether some of us are too ghetto to even deserve to.

This respectability politic also ties together Cosby's entire career, from his days playing a Rhodes Scholar on I-Spy to his role as the successful obstetrician Heathcliff Huxtable on The Cosby Show and his noted criticism of Eddie Murphy for his use of profanity and sexual subject matter. In a society built upon one-dimensional, pathological views of black life Cosby's body of work — and his support for historically black colleges — is commendable. But positive imagery and philanthropic good deeds don't justify what is essentially hate speech.

Truth told, reactionary, elitist, stereotypical and inappropriate as they were, there was really nothing black-specific in Cosby's comments. Every ethnic group in this country has experienced this dynamic of intra-group embarrassment. (I have long believed that the NAACP should give Jerry Springer an image award for pulling back the sheets on white American dysfunctionality.) And rich people have been declaring poor people immoral since the days of feudalism; the irony is that we've only recently generated black people who were rich enough to be taken seriously.

Ultimately, Cosby was right: we can't solely blame white people for this contempt for the black poor. There are plenty of black people who are responsible too. But most of them are not named Shaniqua.

Hello Mr. WHITEMAN,

Your comments were interesting and true, that is if the "STRUCTURE" as we know it didn't exist. Not only the structure of America but the structure of the world leans towards the belief that "white" people are the standard, and any deviation of that standard is less, or non-white. There is a difference between ignorance/seeking white-approval, and simply being pissed off because your people are complying with the many injustices that were put in place to perpetuate their oppressed state, for instance; Jim Crow. And you being a white man there are feelings and other things that naturally hold little value to you, not because you don't care, or maybe you are concerned, but it could not possibly match that of one who has lived as a black person in America. You came into the world through a different Karma. Most black concerns are probably Chinese to you, thats why you simply dismissed Mr. Cosby's speech as irrational, instead of addressing it by which one who actually can relate too it would. Although some whites are able to see past the perimeter and not infer what they choose but search for the real answers.

And nobody white or black wants their people or America represented by incompetent people. Do blacks lack aestheticism? Thats what you infer when you down play ones concern about attire. Do blacks have to try and be "white" to be right? Is right a white thing? Thats insane. Ironically, the blacks who normally are quick to judge and oppose movements from both blacks and whites that critique blacks(as long as the critique is true) or question them in any fashion are the ones who seek white approval. Because they feel inferior, and because of that they're pissed off and express their opposition and inferiority to whites by forming organizations with BLACK on the title to impose their blackness.(excluding organizations that were named appropriately so out of necessity in the older days.) All their saying is "look at what I can do Mr. White man, we don't need you!" Its no different than a child venting their anger to their parents, or the skinheads who are pissed off because blacks are free. They feel inferior, defeated, belittled.

But look, its not your fault, your on the side of the spectrum that allowed you from day one the privilege not to be viewed with a question mark. Growing up you were taught that you were human and not a color, blacks and others on the other hand were made clear what they were not white, thus limiting them to be just that, not white, a minority, the victim. Example: Black section in the library, black history month, African-American! We're all just AMERICAN! And any implementation to the contrary would indicate a real problem, right?? And thats the problem we face. And these are not excuses, but realities. And yes, attire in this case means an awful lot, but you have to know what it means first, and I don't think you do. Though some may succeed, for example: rappers and such, others are simply regular people mimicking what they see on BET and actually living the life of a song and ether ends up in jail or dead, but you say bill seeks white approval, no, he seeks improvement because he is human enough to decide what is right and wrong for himself, and human enough to address it. Though his approach is a bit offensive to the addressee, he knows what he means. You cant address red with blue, unless you have a clear understanding of both, otherwise your simply voicing an opinion based off of one side, its just not realistic. Don't be indifferent, Cosby, though a bit opinionated, said those things because they were real concerns that are tied to his emotions through different life experiences. In many forms of hip-hop ambivalence is the acceptable norm amongst the youth (meaning crime to success like JAY-Z and Cash Money) , and the usual choices are the wrong ones, and the many who choose the right ones are limited and pre-judged by whites and blacks all because the way we view others and ourselves based on structural belief. Knowing blacks is more than just reading a book about black people, its being black, or white and understanding more than just the rhetoric of which we all learn in school.

That outburst was not meant for whites, not meaning that in racial way, but it wasn't. Bill was not reporting to the white man, know the difference. And if he was that would be seeking white approval. I don't think he cared whether or not a white person ever even heard his speech. How would I look telling the Jew's how to feel about the Holocaust? That should give you a mental PICTORIAL of how you look.

TIP: FIND OUT WHY BILL SAID THOSE THINGS.
Amilton

Hey Anonymous. For me to actually have to "define" what that connection is is a virtual impossibility. Either you have it, or you don't. Honestly, I don't have that connection with everyone. I agree that most of us lost it somewhere and some of us never got it back. But for those who have it, you know it. Example: when I enter a church sunday morning in my neighborhood, I feel it. When I attend a Kwanzaa ceremony and I the drums begin vibrating, I feel it. When I'm at a party and we are all moving on the same energies and rhythms, I feel it. When I'm in poetry sessions or open mic nights or at a freestyle jazz jam session or at a town hall meeting or having a debate on political and socio-economic upliftment. All of these things incorporate the feeling of which I speak. When I see kids from my youth group dance, I can see similarities to the movements of various tribal dances...Afrikan and Native American. This is not something you can teach, it just is.

Hey Anonymous! You're right! The cultural identity of the black race in Amercia was destroyed by shackles. The inherent values, traditions, and history were broken by shackles. Don't believe me? Help me trace your family tree. It stops on this shore because of slavery. Very few Americans of African heritage can trace their "roots."(as Alex Haley as it may sound) Poor Bobby, thinking that group sensationalism in church, or wiggling his a** in a manner that appears to mimick an Afrikan war dance is a cultural connection. Or even that in the American created Kwanzaa celebrations (know who Maulana Karenga was?) that he feels some "connection." [In my nearly three years in Africa, I heard very little good from African Blacks, educated or otherwise, about American blacks] These are all "feelings," not a cultural connection. Not demeaning any of the other valid statements he has made... Bobby just pulled the oldest "I-can't-explain-myself-because-my-theory-has-no-basis-in-fact-stunt" known to all AA's. "Gee anonymous, if you don't have it, then: it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand."

"Blacks [In America] are the only people in recorded history with virtually NO knowledge of where we originally come from." Larry Evans (parenthesis mine)

Hey, Dick Head. (Love the moniker) Not trying to "out black" the next person or "it's a black thang" out a white person. Fact is, there are certain places either by spirit, soul, energy, vibrations, whatever you choose to call it, where I connect with people that have a similar genetic code as myself. Yeah, I know Ron Karenga and that Kwanzaa is a holiday started by Afrikans-in- America...using adaptations from various traditional Afrikan seasonal ceremonies. The same way Christmas has borrowed from traditions all over the world. And deny it if you will, but yes. There are dance movements that our children do on a daily basis and when they actually see traditional Afrikan dancers, they are amazed that these people are doing "their" dances. Nothing is new under the sun. Nor did I state that everything that culturally connects us is solely Afrikan. As far as our existence on these shores, we probably have as much of a Native American connection as we do Afrikan. I will agree that due to historical tragedies, it may be virtually impossible for most of us (yes, I include myself) to trace back to the exact origin of our existence. Yet to deny that inherently there is something that connects those of Afrikan ancestory is simply choosing to turn blind eye because you don't WANT to see. No, Richard, I can't explain it and would invite input from anyone who can. I'd be interested in hearing someone who can articulate what I feel. (sorta like a good Hallmark card!)

hee hee hee! oooh Bobby! So I guess we're related to yard birds because our movements are similar to theirs?! Chillun mimick what they see in adults, who mimick what they've seen on national geographic. (there's nothing new under the sun, right?) Deny what? Christmas? Who gives a crap about Christmas? We're talking about a cultural void, not that the white man ain't no better because Christmas ain't his holiday either! Wrong yardstick Bobby. Cultural connections aren't feelings or repetitious movements stemming from genetics. It is impossible for us to relate to a specific part of African culture, because we don't know what part is ours! (it sure as hell isn't spinner rims and bandanas) Maybe thinking this way just the anarchist in me, I guess. But it isn't any "blind eye." I'd love for someone to be able to give us back our heritage, the real thing, not just "feelings." But, I guess you are just "taking it where you get it," and I applaude you for that.

Culture is more than a feeling, although, sometimes when I've had a feeling, they've taken a culture! :)

I hate when people say that we have lost our heritage. Why do we have to look back to africa? We made a lot of strides in this country, we have had four hundred years to establish a culture and we were doing a pretty good job up through the sixties. I am concerned with africa because africans look like me, and the way they are treated is a good indicator of how i'm going to get treated by people who don't care to differentiate. Now, i am the decendent of slaves. All black americans are not the decendants of slaves. Some ancestors came as immigrants, stayed in the north. Some were slaves. Some weren't even african but they were dark so no one cared to differentiate. Despite all of these original differences we have come together as a people and have done some great things in music, science, etc. Though america likes to reject us, we are america. I don't need a made up holiday like kwannza to get in touch with my "roots". my roots are some old ladies shucking crab and making the best stew you ever tasted. In short, i think we should stop looking towards africa (which is a collection of nations that barely get along with each other anyway, not one collective entity) and start rejoicing in what we have here! There are plenty of us brown skinned folks that are doing well, however all you see on tv are those NAACP sellouts and rappers acting like that have no sense, with a bunch of half white looking black women bouncing around this side of naked. and big black women with blond hair (why?) acting crazy (see disney commercial). This is why people think we hate ourselves. This is why people think we're ignorant. I have no problem with beyonce, she is beautiful. And blond but sure whatever. However, this image is not blanced with any beautiful brown skinned woman either. We need to be more firm in what we teach and show our children. It's one thing to be entertained by what the MAN shows us on BET, and it's another thing completly to buy into the hype.

Hey Richard. Loved the last quote! BTW, what is your definition of a "cultural connection"? (since you seem to believe we have one somewhere, just not where I believe it to be.) And where do you think it is? What do you think the "real" culture is? I'm not asking for documented fact, just wanted to know your opinion. And Chev, I hear ya. I don't want it percieved that if we "go back to Afrika" and the origin of it all that everything will be hunky-dory and all our ills will be solved. I don't look at our historical relevance as an end all be all. I look to it as a starting point. I understand the tribal fightings that took/take place. I know the role "we" played in sending Afrikans into slavery. Every nation has a history, good and bad. It's just like Richard said, we just don't know ours. So, not to dismiss our immediate heritage (grandma and 'dem!) but because the basis of our origin has been stripped and hidden from us for over 400 years, are we just supposed to stop searching for it and settle? And if we are supposed to quit, color me wrong because my spirit just won't allow me to do that. If it wasn't important for us to know it, there wouldn't have been so much effort into taking it and keeping it hidden from us. Oh, to fall back to the Cosby topic for a minute. Went back and read the transcript from Cosby's interview on Tavis Smiley on PBS. If you go to www.pbs.org and go to Tavis Smiley's show archeives (May) you can read the transcript or listen to the interview with Tavis and Cosby about the speech. Interesting insight.

Mr. WHITEMAN,

In regards to your response and mine, something I dont too often have to do but must in order to kill what possibly will be taken out of context. Not that those in favor of my statements will disagree, more than likely they will agree, but I addressed two things with one answer, and that one answer is not for both issues. What I was addressing too you is that despite the systematic processes of America, there are still issues amongst blacks that need to be addressed by black people. Blacks aren't handicap. And I refuse to believe that through so much adversity they cant survive. What you mentioned about the system was very true as we all know. I'm aware that the black problem is only a problem because the continuous efforts of neoconservatives to perpetuate the black situation, and also stigmatize blacks by making it appear that the failures of the black community are the result of a lack of effort and laziness instead of explaining the many discriminations of the past and present that cause those failures. And that the government refuses to truly address the situation through education(telling America the truth) thus allowing room for stereotypes and xenophobia to grow and continue.

Amilton

Hello all,

Cosby though addressing issues that should be addressed could do more. With his position he should definitely move towards having whites and blacks fully educated in regards to how and why racism is, and how it effects our thoughts and views of the world and one another. Essentially he is feeding into what many whites want him too. Not that he is seeking white approval, or is ignorant, like the rest of America and the world he has been taught to believe through observation of lower end black communities that its only black peoples fault.

Now, in the current day I have no excuses for those who except defeat, but in the old days options were little and physical force played a very large part in the coercive "STAY IN YOUR PLACE" method. And though overt racial chastisement is no longer socially acceptable you cant expect what effects it had on the black psychi'and community to just wash over in a 100 or even 200years. So along with addressing the lower class, he should address the middle and upper class of both races, and explain the difference between systematic racism results verses just plain ole givin' up. That way the psychological cycle can be broken through the reduction of ignorance.

Amilton

Sorry to mislead you Bobby, but I don't think anyone will ever restore our African cultural connection. I think that it is impossible because we cannot find out where our individual families came from, to continue their traditions. The only "culture" we have now is the one we build here, on these shores. It is warm and strong, brave and caring. I gave a short list of people who have made valuable contributions to society. Society, "our" culture, is the American society. Chev is right there. Although Amilton is right, the effects of racism will not wash over quickly, there is no reason for us to hold ourselves back. We are not "selling" out by becoming succesful in America, as Bill Cosby has done. We are not "being white" by getting good grades and speaking proper english. We are becoming part of this society when we do these things. An attempt to keep ourselves as a "separate" culture is internalized segregation, and dillusional. We do need to take back our neighborhoods and promote negro owned businesses in them. We do need to slap some sense into the bigoted gangsta-rap crowd. The actions of these mis-informed youth are not "african culture." These actions are criminal. Having total disregard for the laws in the country you inhabit is not macho, it's stupid. We say "learn the language" to immigrants, we should be saying it to the native born as well. Because we don't know what language is ours (there are different dialects all over Africa) isn't an excuse for trying to make one up. It didn't work the last time we tried. (remember Jive?) Slavery was abolished, giving us the chance to become part of this nation. Many people have fought and died to further the cause. The cause isn't holding our crotches on the streetcorner and blaming the man for our ills. The cause isn't to create a separate black society and alienate ourselves through our own limited expectations. The cause isn't to make whitey see who we is. The cause was to be respected as human, and part of this "melting-pot." It's not about what whitey thinks of us, it's about what we think of ourselves. I don't think being black is hanging in the hood and being gang-sta. Using the word nigga is offensive, NO MATTER WHAT COLOR YOU ARE. Other nationalities aren't called sell-outs when they excel. Why do we have to say that of our own? We have the chance to become part of the greatest society in the world.

I'm an American first, with an African ancestry, not an African American. The stigma of that moniker only promotes stereotyping. I'm proud of my heritage, we shall continue to overcome.

It worries me, Rich, when we speak of assimilation...especially into this society. Not this country, mind you, but this society. America itself has got some good points. But this society of capitalism (not democracy) is a virus eating at the core of humanism. I see, and admire, in my own city the diversity of millions of people. In Atlanta, GA. there are Jewish Community Centers, Vietnamese markets and neighborhoods. Coalitions of everyone from Korean to Ghanain to Italian-American business owners. Everyone embracing who they are, in America, prospering as a whole, and the only qualification to be a part of these organizations is that you culturally and genetically match that organization. Why do we have a problem doing that? You can be as much of an American as you'd like to be or never embrace the ideals of the country at all and it doesn't diminish your status in these communities. The ideology, tactics, governmental policies (historically) and economic setup of this country make it very difficult for me to ever call myself an American. Am I a citizen of the United States? By birth right, yeah. But one of the things I embrace about the USA is it does not (cough) punish you for what or how you think. (cough) I believe if we just settle for wiping away any history we have prior to being brought (which the majority of our ancestors were) to these shores is a genocidal act on our part. Am I a father before I'm a husband? Am I a brother before I am a son? No, I'm equal parts which make a whole, where one comes to the forefront when the time calls for it. So even if, all things being perfect, I was to ever call myself American, it would never hold a higher status than my original blood line. But that's just me. Not knockin' you Rich.

Mr. Cosby was correct in what his said, but not just for the African American community, for everyone. I go to the store and I see little kids telling their parents off and I just do not understand. If i were to have ever talked to my parents the way these kids talk to theirs, I would have been in trouble. How can we expect kids to respect others when they don't even respect their parents? As far as clothing goes, when we get old enough to make our own decisions and we decide that we want to look like a slut then that's fine, but, at the age of 10 you should not have that option. Parents complain about their child's clothing, but the parent's are buying it. I am a 22-year-old, white female who is currently in college. I have worked hard to get to the point that I am at, but more importantly my parent's have worked even harder to allow me to be where I am. When my parents got married, my dad was 17 and my mom was 19, they had no money, and was living in a friend's shop. My mother was told that she wasn't able to have kids, but low and behold a year after they were married she did. My father was beat and neglected his entire life by his family, my mother had a step-father that was abusive. My uncle was physically, sexually, and emotionally abused by his step-father, who his mother is still married to till this day. They've all worked from nothing to be where they are at, so it can be done. My dad did not finish high school so there would have been hell to pay if I didn't go. My parents are my parents, not my friends, which is how it should be. They worked 2/3 jobs each sometimes to see that we made it and sometimes it has been difficult, but they've found a way. Most of my family lives in Tennessee in the mountains and when I go to visit them, I can hardly understand what they are saying. I love them all dearly, but if I spoke that way do you think I would be where I am? If I went into a job interview speaking incorrectly, do you think I would be hired? I doubt it because I know if I were the person doing the hiring, I wouldn't hire myself. I know African American's who do not speak in ebonics so people can be taught how to speak correctly. If you are talking with your friends, it does not matter, but it is sad when you meet someone and they cannot speak properly. We have to strive for ourselves, but we also need to have your parents behind us. Every person has faced some sort of discrimination in their life, but it is how you deal with it that matters. People can get along. I had a get together last week and out of 15 people from all classes and all walks of life, there were only 2 white people and things work fine. Get over the color of your skin and everyone else's and start working for yourself and what you want out of your life. If you do not like where you are, then why not change it? If you never experience and accept the bad, how can you learn to appreciate the good?

Wow. This is extremely interesting to read. I believe Cosby should have brought up both races yet he was at an African America event.
As a caucasian myself, I think I can learn just as much from the speech then any race. It's not about color in my mind. It's about how the world has changed, and how everyone is angry at one another. We need to educate our children and learn that the backbone of our teachings will shape who they are as people.
I'm not religious in any shape or form, other then faith in myself. Yet I can't disregard the story of how everything in society gets worse and wars, hunger, fighting, politics increase before the destruction. I feel society is tearing apart and one can only hope that this is somehow resolved in life.

No problem Bobby, I'm not offended easily. What society would you have instead of capitalism?

Michelle C, I liked your post. I think you made a very good point that towards the end when you stated that "if you do not like where you are, then why not change it?" I wonder how many people LIKE where they are? Some of us get comfortable in our mess and/or haven't experienced anything else so we don't know there's anything better out there. That's why exposure is so key in a child's life. They may never like the museum, or the ballet or football or a class on robotics or African drumming or chess...but at least, if they are exposed to it, they have options. That in itself can make a world of difference.

Honestly, Rich. I don't know what other system I would choose. I'm reading a book right now about the history of socio-political idealogies and economies. Everything from Marxism to Communism to Socialism to Capitalism. Haven't educated myself enough yet to make a sound, intelligent decision. What I do understand for self is that the basis of capitalism is the pyramid structure where there is a small amount who carry the majority of the wealth and a large base below the average income level. Without that structure, capitalism falls. Doesn't make sense to me that in the most wealthy country in the world, 44 million people carry absolutely NO health insurance. Yet BILLIONS are spent on military status and weaponry. Long answer short, Rich. I don't know.

Bill Cosby told what has been said for years and this time it hit home when another black told them so. From the days of H.Rap Brown (Burn, Baby, Burn) too present time the black's that subjected them self to not taking advantage of what was set forth thru court cases that opened the door, they closed it by thier ignorance. He again hit them hard when he stated that,(When you see your child in an orange suit in jail they want to cry out and when ask where is your child they don't know). The child is doing what is learned in the house from what they see thier parent do and say. Black America needs too think about what is going on. Too many have tried to tell them through comedy and music to get thier attention but as allways it it stated ( It will not happen too me)or(Not my child).The blame again as Bill stated (Parenting), be a mother and father not a moma and daddy.

I don't disagree with Cosby's comments, but I don't think they fit as a blanket statement, AND I WISH SOMEONE WOULD SAY THE SAME THING TO WHITE PARENTS. Black people have no corner on these problems. It is time we ALL got serious about an education for EVERYBODY.

Which brings me to my own aggravation. I was at the head of the baby boom. At the time I entered school we represented a huge rise in the grade school population, in the high school population and in the college and trade school population. Our schools required more desks, more textbooks, more teachers more buildings etc. than ever before. BUT SOMEHOW THEY FOUND THE RESOURCES TO SERVE US. The fifties may be looked on as a "dream time" for some, the truth is that average folks did not posses the wealth they do today. DESPITE THE LESSER WEALTH, IT WAS A HELLUVA LOT EASIER TO GET AN EDUCATION THEN. The adults of my youth put a high priority on education, and our schools were better funded than they are today. My generation is adult now, and I am ashamed. They see the new school bond as a liability to their income. It might keep them from buying a new car, or going on that vacation, things their own parents would have been able to postpone or forgo for the sake of their children.

Adults who bitch "that school administrators could spend the money they have better," ought to get involved in their schools and find out the truth. But of course mouthing some stupid ready made phrase saves them the trouble of THINKING or committing themselves to something beside their own aggrandizement.

They are the same people who listen to some bullshit about "no child left behind" and think the current resident of the White House means it. That program is underfunded and holds no true promise of a better life for anyone. Our children will be hard pressed to live as well as we or our parents did. We should have had the money for our own children before we involved ourselves in such an expensive war. (similarly, Greenspan has said its either this debt, or social security, not both.)

It disturbs me to know that I will probably spend my last years in some nursing home (Thanks to the education my parents gave me I have the money to pay for this without social security or medicare.) under the care of doctors and nurses educated under this system.

Bill Cosby's words hit right at the soul of the problem that has been going on for years. The Black parents who sit back and uphold the behavior of thier childern due to they did the shame thing and do not have the intestenal fortatude to admit it. Yes it is true when they see the child dressed out in that famous orange suit they cry out, not my child. But also speaking on parenting the same low down parents, wanting some one to give them a helping hand but refuse too help them self. The (Dead Beats) main cry is (I Am Down On My Luck),or(The White Man Got Me Down). And that same parent would try every thing from ridicule of the child if he or she makes some thing good of him or her self with out them around for support( money)and the wotds that cry out so loudly is (YOU OWE ME). Yes,it is going on. My parent's seperated when I was young and we had it had. Father not around due too his behavior of haging out and drinking. After I retierd out the millitary he, my father stated to me that (Family Needs TOO Take Care Of Family) meaning him. Ater all those years where he failed to do what the courts dictated to him to do. I just had to look at him saking my haed and stated (NO). Yes Bill Cosby was right when he stated that the parents need to be parents, (Mother's and Father's not Babys Moma's and Babys Daddy's.

As a teenager myself I sorta agree with Mr. Cosby's comments,but then I disagree with it also. I don't like what he said because he sort of makes it sound like all African American parents are like that, but they aren't. Sometimes the good does overshadow the bad, but when you make a comment like that you need to think about what others are going to say to it also. The same thing goes for white people also...so that is why I don't agree with his comment.

Da Coz be illin' and shit. He don't be speakin da troof. He shuld be ashamed to be callin his self a brutha. Wut he don't understand is dat da ladies like the thugs and flyin da colors get's a brutha the skins. Damn Shame!

Cosby definitely should address the systematic effects on society as well as those who imped its progress. And those who do are in the inner city as well as the overt racist's who plague the nation.

AM

Bill Cosby has a right to say what ever he feels...doesn't make him any better than the poor soul locked up in prision...perhaps he had opportunities that most people could ever know

C.Spann FortLauderdale, FL.

Wow, I didn't know all this was here! If Mr. Cosby's intention was to start a dialog, then he has succeeded. In my opinion, which is what this all seems about, (and because you didn't ask me), we need to go back to basics and work on leveling the playing field. I don't mean free housing and extra points for minorities when taking tests or applying for jobs. I mean equal education FOR ALL!!! History, because we all need to know how we got to this point, current events because we need to know where we are and everyone needs to learn the tools that will take them into the future and where they decide they want to be. We need to teach the children that the past is just that, the past. Learn the lessons from the past but don't take it into the future that's why were repeating it now. You cannot live in the past and enter the future too. Teach them how to dream of a future and show them how to get there. Give them equal qualifications; i.e., KNOWLEDGE. The future was always in the children but my generation seems to have failed miserably. It feels to me like we're going backward instead of forward. Lets make a better future for all and realize that "equality" doesn't mean everyone the same. It means the same opportunity for all.

I am 21 years old. I am white. I am male. I am a republican. In other words...I'm the bad guy, i guess.

I liked what Mr. Cosby had to say I think he did it at great personal risk to his career and he was brave to speak out like that. I think blacks are in a strange predicament...because no other racial group, in this country today, was brought to this country under the conditions that blacks were...a black person stands out more and is more easily noticed amogst a white society than an Italian or a Mexican would be...Italians and mexicans can more easily blend in and assimilate. So there is a greater-ease for closed-minded people to be racist simply because a black person sticks out like a sore thumb around a bunch or whites. So I think it's different for blacks...and its unfair to compare them to recently immigranting groups like the mexicans or arabs...but at the same time...to make up for racism...white government gave blacks a lot of governmental help...not given to any other socio-economic or ethnic group. And, i know this might be an unpopular thing to say, but i think the government with its "too-much help" is responsible for the current dillemma a lot of blacks are in right now. It's like; "if you give a man a fish he eats for a day...but teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime." Don't get me wrong...iI THINK HAD ANYBODY, ANY OTHER RACIAL GROUP BEEN PUT INTO THIS SITUATION, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EXACTLY THE SAME...HUMANS ARE HUMANS. You know, when helping somebody back from being injured...you don't just one day throw them out the hospital door...you gradually start giving them less and less help until they can stand on their own...I hope blacks don't find what I am saying offensive...i know that this philosophy would be true for any race in any situation...and being Irish-American...I can say that when my ancestors came here from Ireland...they were despised for being catholics and for being poor and dirty and "the shanty irish", etcetera, etcetera. Had the American government enslaved the Irish for decades and then in an attempt to make things right, gave the Irish government support for many years and greater ease with which to get into college and etc....the Irish would be where the blacks are today...exactly the same probably...same with Italians, germans, jews, mexicans, anybody. So i believe it is important for people like Bill Cosby to speak out that blacks are being left by the wayside...and there is a point where the government can only do so much.

I agree with some points of mike d's argument. At this point, there is no way the government can possibly fix all the wrongs it has done to americans of slave descent. I wish they could, but they just can't; they have missed too many chances. Instead, they toss out policies that help a very select few and even fewer ASD (you know, i just might coin that term :-) ). Most people know affirmative action helps homosexuals and women, etc, however very few people understand that the blacks that are being helped most in this country are not ASD, they are of african or carribean descent. My fiance, who is from the south, will tell you that this doesn't matter and there is no descrepancy between a carribean american and an american born black. However, i am not from the south, and i see clear cut differences. In short, the government isn't helping the group of black americans it intends to at all- in fact, they are doing more harm,and it's about time they just stop. This country would be far better off if we simply concentrated on the social economic issues and took out the check one box. Institutional policies like a census based on race don't help anyone. It forces white people, who can be a blend of 20 different people to pick one option- as i may have said before, it can't help that the only thing two american whites have in common is that they have white skin, which automatically puts them at a more beneficial position. And in this day and age, a lot more people that i would have never expected are picking the "white" box. And checking "black" or "hispanic" is even more detrimental, because hispanic means nothing and black can mean anything. I'm off my soapbox now. However i end with saying my new political mission is to get rid of the box and to get "african american" changed to "american of slave descent". Or perhaps "american of non immigrant descent". Right. We'll see how that works out.

We have a copy of a speech to text transcript on the "Urban Cartographer Online" Web site at www.eightcitiesmap.com - just scroll down the menu bar and click on the "To Bill Cosby" line.

Read it for yourself and reach your own conclusions.

Long live the First Amendment!

--30--

The Editor

Mike D.

Could you explain, exactly what perks or fish(your words) this government has handed over to Blacks, and Blacks alone. Just so I can be clear, before I comment.

Thanks.

thanks news editor!! I knew a lot of people that wanted/needed to read the transcript!!

So many things that I want to comment on. First of all, African Americans are not Africans because being African is so much more than just your skin color or the way you move, it is mostly dependent on values and judgements taught to all African children since birth. African Americans though have to realize that no amount of will can make them appear African to an African person because even children born to African parents in the U.S. are not considered real Africans because they do not have the Afrian mindset. For example, I have been in America since I was ten years old and still I struggle with acceptance from other Africans. So all in all I think AAmericans should work on perfecting their own unique culture which has recently took a bad turn but what do you expect with any new thing. Bill Cosby is right because when you are in Rome you do as the Romans, and when you are in America you do as the Americans which means that you succeed and make a better situation for yourselfs. Simply put, Mr. Cosby is saying that a lot of blacks are poor today because they refuse to succeed or are satisfied or even feel priviledged to be where they are. Frankly, common sense would tell you that if an African person who is darker than you and has an accent can succeed and have his children succeed that you then have no excuse unless the problem is somehow built into the culture through lack of parental guidance. Not only Africans do this but other non-White races which would lead to the conclusion that the racism is not so rampant that it paralyzes you, it may numb your pinky but it wouldn't turn you into a vegetable. For example, I grew up in a single parent situation all my life, and also lived in the projects(Lefrak city in NY) and had zero problems not because I was smart or in any way more special, but because I had someone guiding me through it all and teaching me right from wrong. This is what black children need, not some government program( although it would be helpful). Growing up in Nigeria, I learned to count with sticks I picked up from a garbage dump. My class rooms did not even have windows, nevermind air conditioners or books and I was not nearly as smart as the other kids in my class room but I am now here and almost a doctor. Others back in Nigeria would kill to have what I was so lucky to have and what these kids take for granted (I am not saying that conditions are not bad but at the same time the problems are not unsurmountable). Anyone that wants to complain about things should relocate to any African country and see how much better it is over there. And finally, American blacks ask me all the time why Africans sometimes do not warm up to them? My opinion is that like someone said earlier, Africa is a big continent and almost no one African likes another because everyone is so different and also there is resentment in the wasted opportunities that American blacks have that Africans will never have for themselves and their family. In additiion most Africans feel like AA's do not have the critical mental connection in that we value completely different things as opposed to valuing similar things as with other Africans and Carribean peoples.

FLY70

It is comments like yours that set Black people back. To say Black Americans are not considered Africans by Africans is your limited and narrow view. I have been embraced by many Native born Africans, as a Sister. To say we should reject Africans and the African culture sounds to me like something some white washed African would say, if in deed you are African who really knows.

You and Coz, seemed to be so focused on what we African Americans are not. You concentrate on the negative. But you cannot change behavior by relishing on the negative which has been proven by Pioneer Psychologist Skinner. In stead of harboring on what we are doing wrong, why don't you dwell on what we are doing or have done right.
I am only the third generation removed from slavery, by grandmother born in the 1880's was the first and my mother born in the 1920's being the second. I am only 51 and my youngest brother is 36 years old. You do know that you are not the first Black/African doctor in the United States don't you. My best friends father was a medical doctor. There were several Black doctors who lived in the neighborhood I grew up in. You are not a first. Did you know there were African Americans graduating from Ivy League schools back in the late 1800's and earl 1900 W.E.B. Dubois is a shinning example as he is one of the Fathers of Sociological research and study.

You say my African brothers and sisters say we squander real opportunity. Well tell them that my father, a Black man as dark as any African on the continent, a highly intelligent man, was not afforded the same opportunities as white people. Only one sememster from graduating from high school, he was drafted in the army and denied a deferrment to graduate from high school, while his white male class mates were given deferrments. He served his country well and with pride and came home only to be relegated to certain jobs due to his race. But he did not sit down and refuse to take care of his family he went to the packing house, slaugtering cows, so that me and my family could eat. He higly regarded education, and every night he had some kind of book in his hands. He raised us to be proud of who we are, and that we were desendents of the Kings and Queens of Africa. The same whom you say, outrightly denies us as kindred. Everyone of my sisters and brothers has some kind of post secondary education. None of us are on drugged out, none of our children are in jail nor has been. Everyone of us is working hard everyday to take care of our families. Both of my brothers and my son have served in the military willing to die for this country. But let you tell it we are all on welfare, neglecting our children, which is a lie. Tell your African friends what we have accomplished despite the odds, tell them true history of African Americans, not the one the media would want you to believe. Tell them about my best friends daughter who just graduated with a Phd in Molecular Biololgy at the Univ. of NE Med Center (she is an African American by the way).

My Sister was married to a Nigerian. While he does have a college education as she also has, he is not doing any better financially than the average Black American, and in all probability is doing somewhat worse. He was/is a dead beat dad so to speak, and had little interaction with his daughter to the point that she wants to change her last name to the last name of our Family (which I am against). But you know what, I do not assume that all Africans behave in the same way as my former brother-in-law. I am intelligent enough not to make that assumption.

So if you and your friends do not want to consider African Americans your brothers and sisters that is on you. But for everyone of the Africans who reject us, there are hundreds who are willing to welcome and accept us with open arms. My father never rejected his roots and he instilled that in his children. It is so called Africans like you who want to maintain the divide set by the Euro communities centuries ago. A divided house will never stand. You are perpetuating this notion.

Peace.

FLY70

The reason I focused on the negatives of your comments is because I did not see anything positive in your post.

You said: So all in all I think AAmericans should work on perfecting their own unique culture which has recently took a BAD turn but what do you expect with any new thing.

So if someone says African American culture has recently taken a bad turn, I am supposed to get something positive out of it? You say African Americans do not have the African mindset, what exactly is the African mindset in your view, and what is the African American mindset in your view.

I interpreted what you said about Africans not accepting us as Africans, meaning they did not accept us as part of them, a prodigal brother or Sister connected to them through blood. I can tell you regardless of what you say, I feel just as much a link to my African brothers and sisters as I do my African American brothers and sisters. Personally, I prefer the word Black as oppossed to African American. Because being Black links us to one another all over the world. Although I think the ralling cry to change the word to African American, had good intentions connecting our past (African and present (American). The word African American also causes divisions. What do we call Brazillians who are Black, African Brazillians, or the Aboriginees in Austrailia, African Aboriginees, or the ones in Venezuela, African Venezulelians? It was easier, and more inclusive when we called each other Black. As is really made clear in your first post, you appear to me to say we should cut our ties with Africa, which I am totally against. Black people in this WORLD are on the bottom of every scio-economic ladder. Compare the income of non-Blacks in Africa with the Blacks, and tell me what the disparity in income is. Why is that Euros and Indians living in African Countries have no problem being educated in Africa, but the Black Africans do? Should I infer that Black Africans have no drive, a bad culture, or are just less intelligent than the Euro's? I mean Blacks in Africa have been in power/control of their own Countries for about as long as our own Civil Rights Laws have been in effect, save South Africa haven't they? But I would be a Fool (your words) if I made a deduction based on the tangible facts alone ( i.e. Euros in Africa are educated, live in nice homes, have money, Black Africans do not so Black Africans must be lazy, unintelligent, and/or have a bad culture). We as Black people can ill afford to turn or backs on those of us who are less fortunate in other Countries, that is what you seemed to the telling us to do in my interpretation.

My father is not in my past, he is very much alive
as are my Sisters and Brothers. My daughter is a College Graduate, and my son is returning to College this year to finish his degree. This is not my past, but my present.

You said: To say focus on the good things I think would be delusional and detrimental.

I beg to differ. There is not a Black person in America who does not know what our problems are. You can go ask a six year old what the problems are, and she would say "My mama ain't got no job, we ain't got no food to eat, My daddy moved away and I don't know where he is." Black folks have been studied and restudied, with surveys, demographic data, historical analysis, you name it the problems of African Americans have been identified long before you were born, and all the different studies could probably stack up as high as the Sears Tower. So the problems of Black people are well documented, we know the problems. The real tragedy is that the solutions to the problems are not being written or thought out with the same intensity.

You said:Bill Cosby is right because when you are in Rome you do as the Romans...... I agree, that is exactly what is happening in the inner-cities. They are doing exactly as everyone else is doing therein lies the problem. You see, when I was coming up, doctors lived around the corner, an Attorney up the street, everybody went to church, Pastors in the hood, knew all the kids by name, even the ones that did not go to their church, because they cared about all. Due to integretion, their was massive Black middle-class flight, which would not have been so bad, if those in the highlands were still trying to be a hand-up to those left behind, even if it was coming down to the hood one hour a week. The role models are gone for the most part, and those left behind are almost locked in a mindset of hoplessness and despair, they see no way out. Children see their parents work hard everyday earning six dollars an hour, but their lights get turned off, there is still no food in the fridge,and no money to buy clothes. But on the other hand, they see the dope dealer driving a hummer, the numbers runner wearing bling/bling on his fingers, so they deduce that mama works hard everyday and can't pay the Bills, Johnny Dope down the street is living large and don't work a day, I deduce that I want to be like Johnny Dope. Most often,the only legitimate Blacks who make it out the hood,are Rappers, Singers, and athletes. So while some may aspire to be like Mike and P-Diddy, too often their B-Plan is to be like Johnny Dope. So you see they are following the basic premise of "Do as the Romans do". You see my biggest gripe is not with White folks, yes racisim does exsist, and probably will continue for years to come, but I put the biggest blame on the conditions of those Black in the hood today, squarely on the shoulders of the Black Middle and Upper Class, who bolted out the hood, and have never looked back, not even in many cases for their own sisters and brothers, nieces and nephews, first and second cousins. They have the attitude "I got Mine, You get yours" not even acknowleging that some Black man or woman paved the way for them, showed them the ropes, gave them an opportunity. Black people rather they admit it or not still have some self-hate issues that have yet to be addressed (quiet as it's kept). Making It, in the minds of many Blacks is measured by how many Blacks live in your neighborhood. The fewer Blacks live in your neighborhood, the more you are considered TOP DOG, Creme of the Crop so to speak. We are the only race of people in my mind who do this. The Hispanics don't do it, the orientals don't do it, the Jews certainly don't do it, why do we? So you are wrong in your assessment of me in regard to the White man and racism, although don't get me wrong I still believe in repairations, but we need to take responsibility of our own.

In regard to the positive vs. the negative. I pose this to you. What do you thing will get the most postive reaction: This One

"You are lazy, and an embarrassment to me. You can't talk, you're stupid, your mama ain't got no sense. She don't know how to even raise you, I can't even walk in your neighborhood because you and your family disgust me. I hate even looking at you. Get up off your lazy butts, and be something. The thought of you makes me sick. Are you ever going to do something with your life? If so when? You are just plain ignorant and so is your mama, and her mama too. I bet you don't even know your daddy do you? I just throw up my hands, I give up."

OR This One:

I know times is hard at home, but you do know you're Blue Blood don't you? You do know that only the strongest and brightest of the bunch, made it through the slave trade don't you. You are the desendent of Kings and Queens. Do you know the civilization began with us. Oh just talking with you, I can see how intelligent you are. You might be the next W.E. B. Dubois, or the next Scientist to invent the cure to cancer, or the next person to develop gasoline from water. I just know you are going to be something great. You are a leader, I just see it all over you. Do you know I Love You, but even as much as I Love there is a God in heaven who loves you more. He is watching over you, he wants the best for you. Guess what, you even have an Angel assigned just to you. Pray and believe in him, he can work Miracles. OH, I see great things in store for you. You have the features of a King. I bet you are good in math aren't you? It is not every day you meet someone like you. I want to help you be all that you can be. Always remember that you are loved, that you can be ANYTHING you want to be. Be a Leader not a Follower, but I can already see the Leader in you. I have so much confidence in you. Come here and let me give you a hug. Let's sit down here and get this homework done.

Now you tell me which one would get the most positive results. My bible tells me you conquer evil with good, and I will stand on the word of God. And you know why I know you get more positive results with positive affirmations? Is because that is the way my father and mother raised me, and that is the way I raised my children and is what I told all of my children's friends, none of them are in jail, or selling drugs for a living.

You can say what you will or may, but positive reinforcement will out do negative reinforcement any day of the week.

You say I am an angry person. Wrong, I only get upset when people make statments like you made in your first post. If I missed something positive you said about African Americans please point it out to me. In reading your post one would assume we have never done anything right, and all of us are on welfare, with no desire for success. Even the welfare mother, dreams and wants the best for her children, too often they just do not know how to get them up the ladder to success. If someone told you, you were stupid, and lacked motivation, would you feel good and positive about that? I doubt it, neither do I.

I'm not asking for any sympathy from you or no one else, I am only asking for empathy and Love for your neighbor as your self that is it.

Peace

P.S. Sorry for the long email, but I was on a roll.

Hi Deborah,
I want you to know that I meant no disrespect by any of my comments, those are just my personal views on things. I believe that to have any sort of good and honest dialogue especially about something so important as the black state of affairs, one must tell the truth and the truth most often hurts. From your latest comments you said that you did not like the fact that I said that the AA culture has taken a bad turn recently, well, I think it has because I am sure that when you were growing up it was good to do good things like take care of your family, speak proper English, get an education but now you're a sellout if you do such things. Now, black children everywhere are afraid to be smart, speak proper English and be successful in anything other than music or sports because the notion is that you lose your blackness and somehow turn white.That to me is a bad turn and I am sorry if you don't want to hear it but that is the truth.

The difference between an African mindset and an AA mindset is basically the cultural difference. As you know, different cultures emphasize different cultural norms which changes as society advances. The AA culture is relatively new and its main influence is obviously the Caucasian culture and as you and I know, the White American culture or mindset is very different from African culture or mindset.

In response to your previous statement, I am only one African, and cannot make a general statement to say that Africans do not accept African Americans because frankly I don't know how all African view AA. My comment was that AA should not be bothered if an African person does not warm up to them (actually a couple of my classmates asked me why the other Africans in the class sometimes behave strangely towards them and I told them that it is nothing personal because they do the same to me because they feel like I am not African enough)because for example,in Nigeria, although we are all Nigerians, we are still very different peoples. The fact that you are a black person in Nigeria really is insignificant because everybody is black, what matters is your culture or tribe. Thats why it is so hard to have a successful African nation because each country is made up of significantly different peoples who do not get along just like you see in Iraq. So for you to say that Africans are lazy and strive to fail is not true. I know that you wouldn't say that because you would be doing a disservice to yourself the same way I would be doing a disservice to myself if I said the same about AA as you claimed I had. To clarify, I said that a lot of Africans agree with Cosby who basically said that blacks in this country are not taking advantage of the opportunities that many blacks in the past had died for and many less fortunate Africans will do anything to get a hold of and again that is the truth. Thus there is some bewilderment when Africans who basically think that America is heaven (in terms of lifestyle and education) arrive and see blacks like themselves not succeeding(in general) as they would like.

You are right, Euros in Africa do better but mostly because they came packing money from European companies and endorsements from their government and play the divide and conquer game againt an already divided and conquered nation. But to compare the Black African situation to the black American situation is misleading because here you have the opportunity(I know because I grew up here), there you don't which is why I came here.
Finally, to answer your question, I think that we have beaten that empathy track to death, what's next is called tough love. In other words, I love you but I will not make excuses for you (no white man this or white man that), I know you have it rough but so does every one else in the world (in fact you have it better than most people), if it is done by people with one head, two eyes, and four limbs( no matter what color they are)then I can do and take responsibility for your actions (repairations will not fix or help black people's problems. I believe that it will make us look weaker as a people for needing so much help in a country with the most opportunity in the world).
Later...

Hello FLY70:

I still beg to differ in regard to your response that the AA culture has taken a turn for the worse. You said: Now, black children everywhere are afraid to be smart, speak proper English and be successful in anything other than music or sports because the notion is that you lose your blackness and somehow turn white.That to me is a bad turn and I am sorry if you don't want to hear it but that is the truth.

To prove my point I did brief amount of research on census.gov. I graduated from college in 1980 so it is fitting that the information gathered goes back to 1980. Here is what I found:

In 1980 51% of blacks had at least a High School diploma compared with 71% of whites.

In 1992 68% of blacks had at least a High School Diploma compared with 81% of whites. Here you can see that blacks improved at a higher rate than white people in attaining at least a high school diploma from 1980 to 1992 (17% for Blacks and 10% for whites)

In 1980 8% of Blacks had at least a Bachelors Degree compared to 18% of whites.

In 1992 12% of Blacks had at least a Bachelors Degree compared to 22% of whites. Here you see that Blacks improved at the same rate as white people (both at 4%).

In 2002 (the last year I could find data) 79% of Blacks hat at least a High School Diploma. Compared to 89% of whites. Here again, Blacks improved at a higher percentage than Whites in the ten year spectrum (11% for Blacks and 9% for whites). This shows that in 22 years Blacks have improved 28% compared to 18% in attaining at least a High School Diploma.

In 2002 17% of Blacks held at least a Bachelor Degree, while 29% of whites held the same. While Blacks have not improved in the ten years at a higher rate than whites, they have steadily improved (5% in ten years). Also in 2002 27% of Blacks had some college and/or an Associate Degree only 2% less than whites at 29%.

So in all, what I am saying is your statement regarding Blacks and their lack of achievement in education in the 21st century as compared to when I graduated from college, do not align with the facts. Blacks are achieving at almost the same level as Blacks, the problem is we did not start the race at the same vantage point. Could we do better, without a doubt, we must, but a lot of that is attributed to the lack of funds by parents for post secondary education for their children. So would you please relay this information to your African friends who perceive that AA are perpetual under-achievers.

I also pose some questions to you and my African brothers and sisters. Why do you come over to this country and get advanced degrees, but many, if not the vast majority stay in this country, maintaining the status quo of America, and not go back to your Country to uplift the status quo in your country. Doesn't this just continue a brain drain in the country? You learn so much in all areas of fields of concentration, that could help your country, but you would rather maintain America's wealth than contribute to your own Country's improvement. Secondly, why do you always wear Euro-styled attire when you come to our country or when Euro-governments come to your country, and not African Royalty Attire? I mean you do not see Euro's wearing your attire when they visit your country. Why when the Euro-government officals come to your Countries, you act like a puppy begging for a bone and attention, rather than the royal blue blood that your ancestors were and primed you to be? Are you ashamed of who you are or do you think assimilation into Euro culture is the best way to acquire the dabble of funds offered by Euro-governments? FLY70 maybe you can answer those questions for me. I think it is high time that Africans start viewing their own countries as heaven, or at least the potential to be. African's focus should be to make their countries heaven on earth, and stop looking to find it (heaven) in the western world only. Think outside the box.

In regard to tough love. To me tough love is only required after unconditional love has failed. A child from birth she be assured that they are loved, wanted, and needed. They should know who they are and where they come from, they should know the love of God, and right from wrong. To take a tough love approach from birth to adulthood I think is wrong. Although there will always be a need for discipline, thoughout the growth process from childhood to adulthood. The focus should not be on discipline, but on the building of character positively. But that's me and my approach.

Well I need to stop. I hope I have shed some light on the AA culture.

Peace and blessings to you.

FLY70:

A little edit on my last post. I said: Blacks are achieving at almost the same level as BLACKS

I meant to say Blacks are achieving at almost the same level as WHITES.

Just want to prevent any confusion.

Peace

I must say i agree more with Fly70. In my case, i am not african and i don't want to be african. My family goes back for many generations here in america. My culture is an evolution of many things that africans have never encountered, just as their culture is the evolution of things i have not encountered. Sure, we're all black, and we should keep and eye out on each other. However, I'd rather focus on the continous development of my own culture than to look overseas and try to tag on to someone else's. I wish i could give an example but there aren't any. It really is like a white person saying they are european american, yet having no ties to any specific european countries' culture, history, etc. Sure, they are of european decent- however that only means that they aren't of african or asian, etc decent. Just like saying you are of african decent only signifies that you are not of european, etc decent.

oh, and i also believe that the unconditional love (at least the example you gave) has failed us. You have hundreds of americans of slave descent beliving that they are the descendants of royalty and yet many don't know how to behave accordingly. Also, i believe it is far more powerful to emphasize the fact they we were dragged from the far side of the earth, a hodgepodge of different cultures, languages, etc, beat down, ridiculed and stepped upon, and yet we still managed to thrive. When i think of power, i think of my slave ancestors who did whatever it took to acheive against all odds so that their progeny could survive and evolve- i don't look back to ancient african royalty to establish myself. And also, harsh as it is, not every one is talented in all things. Instead of lying to some child and telling him he is brilliant in all things and it's the world that is against him, it's far better to simply tell him he can do anything if he has the will and the drive (which is true). We used to tell our children to work hard and find your own definition of success- now we tell them that they are going to be doctors and lawyers, etc. I believe specifying is a problem because a- children aren't dumb and know thier limitions- and b- being a strong man/woman, raising s good family and conducting yourself has good upstanding people is definately an acheivement. And in this day and age, i don't think our children really get that. People used to tell me all the time to be or that i would be a doctor/lawyer. They would get mad when i said that there was no way i could be a doctor- i wasn't good enough. That used to anger me, and made me feel as though something was wrong with me- that because i wasn't going to be a doctor i wasn't advancing the black cause enough. However, it was my grandmother, who simply told me that i could do whatever i wanted to with hard work, dedication and most importantly the LORD. She also told me to define my own success. Those words caused me to work harder. Those words gave me pride in the acheivements i've made, and those words kept me from feeling bad because i am not good in math, etc. If a child is bad in school, he should be pushed to try his best, but he should also be pushed to find his true talents. He may not be the next Charles Drew, but he may be the next Simmie Knox, you know? this wasn't an attack, Deborah, because i know where you were going. I just feel that postive doesn't mean blind, and you need a bit of both. You need someone to tell you you're being a jackass when you're acting like a jackass, just like you need to know they support you and have faith in you and yell because they know you can do better. Long rant, sorry.

Chev

Well said. I think we are more alike in our thinking than different. I feel your every emotion.

Peace.

However Chev, I have to disagree with you in regard to not clinging to our African culture and history. The strongest and the tallest tree on earth is the one which has the longest root. I believe we will not stand our tallest and strongest without the acknowlegement of our roots. That is the way my Father raised me, and I will forever stand on it.

You cannot tell me that the fact that Euro history was taught in America back to the beginning of AD, that it did not help bring forth confidence in Euros and lower the self-esteem of Blacks. Read "The miseducation of the Negro" by Carter G. Woodson written in the 1930's.

But whatever blows your hair back. It all Good.

Peace